This has been going on for a long time, and for once we’ve found a clear definition of whether WIMAX qualifies to be called 4G (as how advertised by P1, a local Malaysia ISP).
I’ve always had strong opinions about how WiMAX (a technology which is helmed under IEEE) isn’t part of 4G. In fact the most recent conversation i had with @P1Media (suspiciously seems to be @AminAshaari due to the language and terms thats used). The conversation was public with the relevant points for your reading. I have my own assessment of the incident at the tail end of this entry, so if you’re bored of the convo, skip to the end.
Conversation started at 4:15pm on Wednesday 28 April 2010.
@sureshdr @P1Media since when was 4G been launched in MY? WIMAX isn’t 4G, stop misleading, pls!
@P1Media: What is 4G? what is 3G?
The PR personnel was trying to see whether i know my facts. Playing along.
@sureshdr @P1Media for an Internet company you guys don’t seem to know the availability of Google #fail
@P1Media @sureshdr funny guy. It seems to us you’re google. We use Bing most of the time
Again, diverting from the topic, trying to show that Google isn’t the only search engine. Fine, but they still didn’t check their facts yet.
@P1Media@sureshdr not spinning anything just sharing. Anyways ITU and IETF didn’t ratify 1/2/2.5/3.5G either. Technically speaking
@sureshdr @P1Media the generation term was never used for IETF based standards. Only RFCs. Care to explain why you didn’t include 3G in your list?
@sureshdr @P1Media what’s 3gpp then?
Note that I made a clear mistake. IETF wasn’t involved in WIMAX standards but it was IEEE (this wasn’t even ratified by P1, which means they trust me … hehehe +1)
@P1Media @sureshdr Our point exactly. On the 3G thing: Just missed it while typing. It was supposed to be 1/2/2.5/3/3.5/3.75G our bad
@P1Media @sureshdr 3GPP is something like the WiMAX forum a group of “people” progressing the technology
@P1Media @sureshdr thanks for the tip. Will read it up, hopefully can be as awesome as you
If facts don’t work, try flattery
Thanks, but i’m allergic to bullshit
Moving along. Special mention to @brianritchie who also jumped into the convo, together with @alphaque.
@P1Media @sureshdr its a program not an authority. Besides 3GPP is not concerned about WiMAX
Observe that the conversation just got diverted from whether WIMAX is 4G to how 3GPP relates to WIMAX. 3GPP website clearly states that – “3G Mobile System based on evolved GSM core networks and the radio access technologies that they support (i.e., Universal Terrestrial Radio Access (UTRA) both Frequency Division Duplex (FDD) and Time Division Duplex (TDD) modes).” In laymans term, 3G Mobile Network based on GSM platform. (I don’t see WIMAX in this picture yet). Also, look at how 3GPP was downplayed (when it was a project by ITU/GSMA).
@sureshdr @P1Media it also clearly defines how the term “g” is used in the context of generations of mobile cellular networks governed by ITU.
@P1Media I have shown clear evidence that you are misleading the general public by equating 4g with Wimax. Doesn’t benefit to spin.
@P1Media @sureshdr guess the whole world is mislead then
Clear/Sprint/UQ/Yota/Intel/HTC/Motorola/Samsung/Huawei/ZTE are all in it too LoLs
Another tactic is to shift the blame. If everyone screws up, there’s nothing wrong with us. The same argument here about whether Clear/Sprint/UQ/Yota/Intel/HTC/Motorola/Samsung/Huawei/ZTE is an authority or not would be a big FAT no (didn’t P1 start with whose the authority here?)
I’ve played along long enough on giving them facts to support my claims, now time to turn the tables around.
@sureshdr @P1Media and yet you have not shown clear technical reference (except news media) on this topic.
@sureshdr @P1Media are you admitting that you are misleading the public? #in response to “everyone else claims”
@P1Media @sureshdr that’s a resounding – No.
@sureshdr @P1Media then show me technical facts (no pr bullcrap) to sustain your claims, instead of giving excuses.
@P1Media @sureshdr technical facts on…?
@sureshdr @P1Media why you claim wimax is 4g?
@P1Media @sureshdr because WiMAX is 4G
This is the point i say, that i’ve proven my point. PR is PR and technology is technology. But the conversation continues…
@alphaque @P1Media i remained quiet and still this ? but since u brought it up, nope, not by a long shot.
@brianritchie @sureshdr
@alphaque @P1Media actually it isnt, its just ur marketing claiming that. there’re no technical standards for 4G u can show. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque our point exactly. Hence the question what is 3G and what is 4G? What is Turbo 3G for that matter? @sureshdr
@brianritchie @P1Media Do u have any P1 Technical Arch papers on ur technologies deployed open to public? I’d like to do some research @sureshdr @alphaque
At this point @AminAshaari decides to jump into the conversation. Brand & PR practitioner for P1.
@alphaque @AminAshaari 3G is defined by the ITU and the 3GPP. 4G is something u flers say is WiMax, but just admit its all mktg. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque tell Intel that please. kthxbai @sureshdr
Here, blame game starts. Its more convenient to point fingers than to fess up.
@alphaque @AminAshaari sorry, ur advertisements carry your logo and @p1w1max’s name. why should i ask intel and not you ? @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari but its perfectly fine if @p1w1max can’t answer and wants to tai-chi it to intel instead. nice msg that sends.
@sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque You’re missing the point but it’s ok. Can we just agree to disagree please @sureshdr
Waving white flag but not admitting error… Doesn’t sound right just yet.
@AminAshaari @alphaque 3G is a standard set by who? @sureshdr
@sureshdr ITU – refer to 3gpp RT @AminAshaari @alphaque 3G is a standard set by who?
@alphaque @AminAshaari already said it earlier down, ITU and 3GPP came up with the formal 3G standards. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @sureshdr question again, is 3PP an authority? @alphaque
@alphaque @AminAshaari oh ok, questioning the ITU now ? well, lots of countries seem to think it is. in fact PM just got an award too !
@sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque Heard about the PM thing but am not questioning ITU. It’s 3GPP am asking about. @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari lotsa docs on 3GPP available, but it did produce a 3G standard with docs. 4G is just a mktg term u flers use. @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari even wikipedia uses 4G to reference ITU-R’s IMT Advanced, and certainly not WiMAX which is IEEE802.16 based. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque The 3GPP docs are saying what 3G is. It didn’t set the standard. ITU did. ITU didn’t say what 3GPP said is definitive @sureshdr
At this point, its proven that the person talks from PR perspective. Any technical person knows that without the 3GPP standards which is ITU IMT-2000 standards, there is no standards nor interop in 3G networks.
@alphaque @AminAshaari so one can conclude that @p1w1max’s use of 4G is mktg spin to compete against perhaps LTE or IMT-Advanced. QED. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @sureshdr does 3GPP.org define what authority is?
@Alphaque #didn’t know that 3GPP is a random group of people
@AminAshaari @alphaque .16e is IMT-Advanced @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque sorry, I meant .16m :”> @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari arguably, but they dont provide service in msia. @p1w1max does and i am questioning P1, your employers. not others. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @sureshdr IUT is looking at both .16m and LTE Advanced as 4G. Till then, it could be either or it could be both @alphaque
@alphaque @AminAshaari sorry, IEEE 802.16m HOPES to converge to ITU-R IMT-Advanced. it is not it yet, by far. big diff. two diff orgs. @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque agreed and like I said 3GPP is not interested in 802 standards. Till then it’s still up in the air and it could be both @sureshdr #hot air maybe?
@alphaque @AminAshaari ITU is looking at 802.16m ? when IEEE is the body developing it ? who’s confused here ? @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari but back to basics, @p1w1max’s use of 4G is purely mktg which could possibly confuse with LTE and IMT-A. use 802.16e @sureshdr
@AminAshaari @alphaque .16m is not like other 802 std. With its range and mobile capabilities, it is being considered as a 4G standard by ITU @sureshdr
@alphaque @AminAshaari in Oct 2007, ITU-R has included wimax into IMT-2000, which by definition makes wimax 3G, and not 4G. no ?
@sureshdr
@sureshdr @AminAshaari I’d like to see you substantiate your claims, any official press release from ITU’s website to support this? @alphaque
@AminAshaari @sureshdr Here you go | http://bit.ly/9YRQmc | @alphaque
@sureshdr Press release quotes the use of wimax as 3G, not 4G. RT @AminAshaari @sureshdr Here you go | http://bit.ly/9YRQmc | @alphaque
@sureshdr @AminAshaari “.16 incorporated into IMT-2000″. That means wimax is 3G. Doesn’t say e or m. @alphaque
@alphaque @AminAshaari err sorry mate, but see my tweet earlier. IMT-2000 is a 3G standard grping. not 4G. so Wimax is 3G now !
@sureshdr
@alphaque @sureshdr exactly what i said earlier. looks like our friend @AminAshaari is confused and agrees now WiMAX is 3G & not 4G as @p1w1max claims
@AminAshaari @sureshdr IEEE is pushing for .16m as IMT-A, ITU is considering, till that’s finalised, its still up in the air people @alphaque
@AminAshaari @sureshdr @alphaque its been fun, but I gotta run. We should do this again sometime
At this point, there isn’t any further concrete evidence to support P1′s claims (though the debate was between the techies and the PR person).
My conclusion, P1 is using the term 4G for purely MARKETING purposes. Why 4G? To show its “superiorness” against 3G and so call legacy networks. To compete against 3G internet providers by indirectly knocking them down. Ethical? Go figure
Fact is 4G is work in progress, just like how WIMAX was a few years ago. For an established organization, what puzzles me is that the blatant lies thats told repeatedly to convince people of something that isn’t justified.
A spade is a spade. WIMAX is WIMAX. WiFi is WiFi. If WiMAX is 4G, what does that make WiFi? 2G? Its a serious insult to intelligence!
P1 would have resolved this much easier by just saying that the use of the term 4G was for marketing. But then again, when you look at the conversation, one has to wonder how the corporate culture is.